[Mister_smart_LA]

Well. I don't usually get upset or worried if someone says they don't use the correct spec oil, and they change their oil frequently, or even when one says that they still follow the long interval and their engine is fine. In this case Mercedes has accidentally contradicted itself and should give owners a definitive answer. Kamaal, do you know what the engine designation is? Is it not M 281? And the BEVO sheet says not 229.51....

I think I'm not being clear.

It is my understanding that 229.51 oils are specifically for diesels with diesel particulate filters, and not correct in a gas engine for 10k miles/1 yr. The TBN on the ubiquitous Mobil 1 0W-40, before all the revisions to the 229.5 list, is 12.6, vs 7.6 on the 0W-30 ESP.

I was shocked to read that the manual says 229.51, and am expressing concern. If you see the list with all the engines of Mercedes and associated brands, you'll note that if one engine says 229.5, it does not also say 229.51, and vice versa. Either the manual is mistaken, or the list on BEVO for the M 281.

I recommend you contact MBUSA and smart's customer assistance center with your concern, rather than here.

 

[jzchen]

Amen!
Many folks obsess about oils. Often they don't even keep the car long enough for it to matter anyway.

Why would I care, because I do keep my cars a long time. Still have my first car, an '85 300D, in the family since 1992. I'm currently replacing the alternator in my '92 190E, purchased in '93. I still have my parents '85 Sedan de Ville, bought new when I was in elementary school. The '91, '99, '04, '08, '09, '10, 2 '12s, 2 '13s, all here. Alright, my wife's '13 still has a loan, and I'm still paying for my '13 smart. Waiting for the title of the '12 Prius v, last payment was the end of last month. (Made it kind of hard to follow my heart career wise when all this was around me from my family's path of life). The '15's a lease, and my wife's planning on returning it.

BUT, I care about the correct spec, because this thread asks for the correct oil type.

I highly doubt a person not planning on keeping their car long would care about the correct oil, unless they were "good" and considerate of the future owner. I wouldn't agree that a person obsessed with oil type would be planning on giving up their car soon.

Thread asks for oil type. An answer was given, which didn't make sense to me. I expressed my concern, and tried to get more information where I thougt was reasonable to do so. If I did something wrong, it was trying to help, and as sometimes happens, I get in trouble for it! ?

 

[jzchen]

Pretty clear now (06/2016):

http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/d/d/en/Spec_223_2.pdf

 

[jwight]

Clear as mud to me - what's the recommended oil for the 453? :shrug:

 

[White Lightning]

Pretty clear now (06/2016):

http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/d/d/en/Spec_223_2.pdf

Thank you jzchen for the posts you've contributed to this thread. I plan on keeping my 453 running well for a decade or longer, so a proper oil is important.

Have you changed the oil/filter yourself on your 453 yet?

I have a few basic questions about changing the 453 oil filter, if you (or anyone else) could answer that'd be appreciated. I posted the questions on this thread: http://www.smartcarofamerica.com/forums/f208/453-oil-filter-info-108273/ Thank you.

 

[jzchen]

Sorry, but I don't have a 453. I was just concerned.

For engine M 281:

in Western Europe: 226.5, 229.3, or 229.5
Everywhere else: 226.5 or 229.5

Just click on the spec here, and pick whichever you like/can find.
Mercedes-Benz Specifications for Operating Fluids: Overview Sheets

To long engine life!!! (cheers)

(Now if I could only remember/figure out the transmission type in an ED I can hopefully update the correct transmission fluid in that thread...)

Will look at the filter thread as I currently have EPC!

 

[jwight]

M 281 = Nissan/Renault 453 engine.

 

[White Lightning]

Some MY16 453 owners in the US & Canada had an early oil change in 2015 before the bevo revision, which occurred sometime after January 1, 2016. In 2015, they most likely inserted an oil into the 453 from 229.51/229.53, in which at least some are formulated for diesel vehicles with particulate filters (for example: Mobil 1 ESP on 229.51). Could that harm the smart 453 M 281 engine if an oil formulated for a diesel from 229.51/229.53 is used over 7,500-10,000 miles?

 

[jzchen]

I looked up Mercedes diesel oil change interval and found a maintenance booklet for 2013. It notes a change interval of 10k miles or 1 year. That's probably as far as I would take the oil. Diesel is really dirty. As far as I know as soon as you run fresh oil, and check the dipstick, the oil has a tendency to turn dark. So in that respect I wouldn't worry too much. I'm really not sure, but maybe it's like an analogy I read once about using lower octane fuel. You eat a burger, and you don't do yourself much harm. You keep eating them though and over time you start having issues.

I went to the Mobil mobile site and found they are listing the ESP 229.51 oil for the 453. (I wonder when the confusion will end!) Print it and keep it with your documents, (add footer/header that shows the date you printed). Either Mercedes or Mobil will have to cover oil related failure...)

If you're not comfortable knowing the oil is in there just do a drain and fill, without filter. (My humble opinion.)

Some MY16 453 owners in the US & Canada had an early oil change in 2015 before the bevo revision, which occurred sometime after January 1, 2016. In 2015, they most likely inserted an oil into the 453 from 229.51/229.53, in which at least some are formulated for diesel vehicles with particulate filters (for example: Mobil 1 ESP on 229.51). Could that harm the smart 453 M 281 engine if an oil formulated for a diesel from 229.51/229.53 is used over 7,500-10,000 miles?

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[ElementalDragon]

Soooo.... has anyone figured out a recommended oil to use in the 453? I'm like... 700 miles past service, and would like to buy/order some stuff so i can get a local shop to change it for me.

 

[jzchen]

See the BEVO site for 211.0 and 223.2

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[lebikerboy]

Here's some choices for you...
Mercedes benz 229.5 oils are
mobil1 ow-40
mobil SHC formula MB 5w-30A
shell helix ultra AB 5w-30
shell helix ultra DC 229.5 GB
valvoline synpower MB 5w-30 NL
pennzoil european formula ultra 5w-30
quaker state european formula ultra 5w-30

 

[Mister_smart_LA]

There is NO confusion, except for what folks are doing in order to insist on creating controversy. MB-Approval 229.51 is an oil approved for some gasoline and diesel MB engines. It is recommended for smart, as are 229.53 oils. You can use many brands of oils according to those specs, or what's more easily attainable of the Mobil 1 variety.

MB-Approval 229.51 or 229.53.

Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30
Mobil 1 ESP 0W-40
Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30
Mobil 1 ESP Formula B 0W-30
Mobil 1 ESP Fomula M 5W-40
Mobil 1 ESP X1 0W-30

 

[jzchen]

There is NO confusion, except for what folks are doing in order to insist on creating controversy. MB-Approval 229.51 is an oil approved for some gasoline and diesel MB engines. It is recommended for smart, as are 229.53 oils. You can use many brands of oils according to those specs, or what's more easily attainable of the Mobil 1 variety.

MB-Approval 229.51 or 229.53.

Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30
Mobil 1 ESP 0W-40
Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30
Mobil 1 ESP Formula B 0W-30
Mobil 1 ESP Fomula M 5W-40
Mobil 1 ESP X1 0W-30

I'm sorry you may think people are trying to cause controversy. One time I recommended Mobil then the next time you seemed pretty mad at me even though I omitted any brand.

The bevo site has had the M 281 engine and as I posted in post #26 the specs have not changed. It has been updated in June:

http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/d/d/en/Spec_223_2.pdf

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[Mister_smart_LA]

I'm sorry you may think people are trying to cause controversy. One time I recommended Mobil then the next time you seemed pretty mad at me even though I omitted any brand.

The bevo site has had the M 281 engine and as I posted in post #26 the specs have not changed. It has been updated in June:

http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/d/d/en/Spec_223_2.pdf

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Using "M 281" engine does not account for potentially various emissions components that may vary according to the market the engine is used in. Although, I'm not one to believe using your recommendations are wrong per sè, I do believe it is unnecessary to ignore specific recommendations in favor of general recommendations.

Alleging that smart or MB was confused on the oil recommendation, to me, is the source of the controversy. Nobody should have any confusion other than how to figure out the difference between "MB-Approval 229.51" and an oil manufacturer slipping "MB 229.51" on the bottle.

 

[jzchen]

Using "M 281" engine does not account for potentially various emissions components that may vary according to the market the engine is used in. Although, I'm not one to believe using your recommendations are wrong per sè, I do believe it is unnecessary to ignore specific recommendations in favor of general recommendations.

Alleging that smart or MB was confused on the oil recommendation, to me, is the source of the controversy. Nobody should have any confusion other than how to figure out the difference between "MB-Approval 229.51" and an oil manufacturer slipping "MB 229.51" on the bottle.

This is a very interesting statement. Again, please, with my respect for you:

This is premised on the "assumption" that some new gasoline emissions technology has come about and has been applied to the 2016 smart fortwo, something along the lines of a DPF for diesel, which would necessitate the creation of a new specification, in DPF's case a 229.51 specification category.

I would think they would apply the same technology to the new 2017 E-class.

I attach the 2017 E Class (US) manual for your reference:

https://www.mbusa.com/vcm/MB/DigitalAssets/pdfmb/ownersmanual/MY17_E-Class_Sedan_Operator_Manual.pdf

and direct you to page 347

The specified oil for all gasoline models is 229.5, 229.6

If none of those are available, "a maximum of 1.1 US qt (1.0 L) once": 229.1, 229.3, or ACEA A3 (and this is 1.1 qt in a minimum 6.9 qt system)

My milder side that stated 229.51 would be fine in the M 281 for 1 year 10k miles is now switched to a feeling one should drain 229.51 and fill with the proper oil.

 

[ElementalDragon]

*sigh*...... this is not helping much in figuring out which oil is safe to use for a regular service interval.... and i'm sure the dealership would probably charge an arm and a leg compared to elsewhere.

 

[jzchen]

*sigh*...... this is not helping much in figuring out which oil is safe to use for a regular service interval.... and i'm sure the dealership would probably charge an arm and a leg compared to elsewhere.

I'm sorry if I was vague. I am trying more and more to be as transparent and non biased in my posts.

It is a gas engine. I'd stick with 229.5, no doubt about it. Readily available is Mobil 1 FS 0W-40, almost anywhere. The "FS" on bottles of the latest version at first glance means it is better suited to a longer service interval as they increased the TBN from 11.x to 12.6. This is the TBN level of Amsoil's Signature line, which Amsoil claims will go 25k miles (or 1 year at the longest time), without a change.

The October '15 printing of the '16 smart manual is not definitive proof that .xx oils should be used.

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[jzchen]

I have been going to the dealer that sold me the '13 smart for service while under warranty. They promise to get you in and out within 10 minutes with a free loaner. I have swallowed, with some salt, the relatively higher prices, but have also noticed that the prices are not as high, maybe half or less, as that for my mother's '09 C350, or the other Mercedes in the household. That said when the high line nav started having issues, they replaced it without verifying the concern. (It takes me up to an hour and a half to get there.). There are pros and cons to going to the dealer for service. If it is serviced at a dealer it is easier to get warranty issues taken care of... On the other hand, there is price, (and in my case sometimes overfilled on oil), in which case I drain the excess as soon as I get the car home.

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[Mister_smart_LA]

*sigh*...... this is not helping much in figuring out which oil is safe to use for a regular service interval.... and i'm sure the dealership would probably charge an arm and a leg compared to elsewhere.

My recommendations come directly from the smart fortwo owner's manual recommendations. I have also made the same recommendations 7 months ago. I have verified them with the service department, and other methods with Mercedes-Benz pertaining to the recommended oil for these vehicles.

I've been consistent. There is no confusion. And no controversy. It's very simple and straightforward. Follow the recommendations in your owner's manual because they are just fine. Choose yours based on the temperatures (your local climate) you will operate the vehicle in.